results.

i have been reading through the book of acts lately(in the bible).

i have a new soap box.

"mars hill" " acts 17 churches" "engagement church movements" etc. i am certainly not against engaging a culture on all levels. going TO people before they come TO you as it were. engageing the post modern mind...etc.

"the mars hill experience" as one may say (the emergent movement is in someways a posterboy for this). i think there are a few "perceived" home runs (mars hill church, nooma, mcclaren, etc) in the movement... and many church planters are excited (sometimes drinking the coolaid - no more that "piper-ites" in mnpls). however... check this out.

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acts 17

32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.” 33 So Paul went out from their midst. 34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

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did you see the church planted there? did you catch that church meeting at "________'s" house, the baptisms, the times paul stayed to teach and instruct the beleievers, the elders he appointed.... oh... did you miss that?

so then there is paul in corinth. haveing not had any REAL fruit from his visit to mars hill (actually that whole city)... unlike the good response from berea just verses earlier... he is poor, in need, and has to work a full time job (part time maybe living with two friends) as he continues ministry.. waiting for his friends to come (from the poor church in philippi) to bring ANOTHER offering. ( this my friends is one of the most amazing stories in all of the N.T. and sheds sooooo much light in the letter to the church at phillipi)

you see,

paul's M.O. was to have each church SEND him to the next... with a few months worth of money (or maybe a years worth.. we can only speculate).

the point? advancement depended on success at the last location (whether 2 months or two years at the "last" location).

and there was LITTLE success in athens... some... and, again, i would not recommend "NOT engaging the 'athens' of our current time" or any enclosed argument...

but i wonder if paul would say we are wasting our limitted resources on the wrong things..

why didn't paul set up and work a part time/full time job in athens? when did he push off?

luke doesn't explain all of these things... however i have noticed, after beingn a christian for 15 years and reading this book over 100 times now... something NEW!

this is my soapbox then currently.

why are we spending time on things that are "interesting" but not "producing" alot of fruit?

i fear that my intent to "understand youth culture" over the last 2 years was indeed spending 50% of my time in the wrong avenues, with the wrong kids/locations (actually), and not looking for the fruit ready for the picking, if that makes sense (what could have been established to carry on the work).

much of the growth of the resoration movement in the first 50 years was due to the expanse of a nation and people interested in spirituality but not loyal to their "denominations". sound familiar with today's spiritual climate.

i wonder if we can learn something here also. is the "simply christian" message a TRIPLE call to the "pagan" (far away from christ) and also to the "god fearer" those searching... and the "attendeer" or compared to a Jew ready for a messiah and finally learning that message... (ie: wanting a simpler church , a biblical one, and finally seeing the new testament mandates, suggestions, and evidences.... ).

question: is the academic and practical ministries world spending extra time in "athens" when paul would have moved on by now?

question: would early christian's in the first 2 centuries reference "mars hill" "acts 17" as much as we would? wasn't this story more damning of athens.... "woe to you athens..." and not luke suggesting "hey christians - check out this "way to do THE WAY" as he does earlier in the book of acts. i wonder if this was a "byword" for early christians.... "remembers athens" ... etc...

okay folks... several hundred words...

think for a while...

then get back to me. ( theparoubeks@juno.com )